erickad71

Yes, indeed...anyone heard of the tobacco companies...

hodor

not to mention the paper industry

Maryjane

"Paranoid!!!" The spooks are out looking for me to take me to Area 51 for intergation and tests. Enal probe here I come

But they still haven't found my quantum level puddle jumper .

littlemissattitude

Well, yes, pot acts as a gateway drug for some folks. But so do alcohol and tobacco, and nobody is seriously considering outlawing them (as much as some folks would like to do so). And I think that it definitely has some medicinal uses. So I definitely support its legalization for medicinal purposes. And, I do see it as different from other, harder drugs, so I would probably support legalization of recreational use, as well. I don't think the fact that some people might become psychologically dependent (I've never seen any studies that said it was physically addicting) on it should automatically disqualify it from legalization. After all, both alcohol and nicotine are physically as well as psychologically addicting, and they are both legal here in the US.

The thing I think is funny (in a sad sort of way) is when I see people ranting about all those "horrible drug users" while they've got a ciggie in one hand and a drink in the other. And, actually, when it comes down to it, even caffeine is a drug with addictive properties. So, it isn't as if all addictive substances that are harmful (and remember, tobacco can be harmful to one's health when used as directed, as can alcohol) are illegal.

The thing you need to understand, Cranium, is that organized crime does make lots of money off of the drug trade, and most mobsters, at least at the higher levels, are good Republicans. Seriously. So that might be a hint as to some of the economic dynamics that are going on around that issue.

__________________
What we got to have in this world is more love...or more slack - Gram Parsons

Maryjane

And food also Littlemissatitude. Ever heard of junk food adicts? I was watching a documentary last night where this guy volunteered to live 30 days on eating nothing else but McDonald's food for 30 days. At the end of the thirty days he had the classic symptoms of adition to McDoanlds food, gained 17lbs had heart palptations, head aches, no energy and sometimes felt depressed and the only way to relieve the way he felt was while stoking up the furnace at McDonald's, and get this! his liver had deteriated the same way as an alcoholic's would after several years of drinking. It took him six months to get his sytem back to normal.

They also performed an experiment, they put McDonalds fries and burgers in bell jars and did the same with Wendy's, Burger King etc, all of the burgers and fries (except for McDonald's fries) had all decomposed to lumps of fury goo after 8 weeks. McDonalds fries still looked as fresh as the day they put them in the bell jar. Talk about presevatives! Dig your body up in 200 years and you'll still look the same as when they buried you. Go figure where else they use perservatives and if you point it out to them they will claim it is only trace amounts.

TGirlPaula

I had the privilege of serving in the U.S. military from 1970 to 1974. Drug busts and narc dogs became part of daily life because guys were taking everything: uppers, downers, pain killers, grass, hash, everything.

I was an electronics technician and had my hands inside live equipment under high voltage in places. I had to have a clear head because one slip and I might have been a statistic instead of honorably discharged.

One of our number was a pothead. He showed up for work stoned and was a hazard to himself and others. Each day one of us took this guy out to the field where we worked while he was off doing something safe.

There were potheads in the damage control shop who could have been injured by power tools, arcwelders, and any numbe of things.

They were always bitching and it seemed that they were living for the next doober. Not much good as I saw it.

My opinion: there is such a thing as addiction to pot and potheads are the proof.

I smoked cigarettes for 20 years. I have not had a cigarette in almost 20 years. I don't want one. Addictive behaviour is gone?

Tobacco companies are phasing out of cigarette production in the States. they even sponsor anti-smoking ads in all media, however, they continue to have strong export sales. They saw the end coming. That is why R.J. Reynolds bought Nabisco, and Philip Morris bought Seven-Up, Wilkinson Sword Blades and other ventures. They began to diversify in the early 1970s.

IMHO they are not against legalization, standardization of potency, taxation, and over-the-counter sales of weed, in neat packs, maybe with filter tips and stems and such as filler for the bud.

Hodor, I feel for your wife like I cannot communicate in words. She is a valiant woman and you are one of a rare breed called "good guys." I say this because I believe it is so.

I can easily go with medicinal marijuana for those who choose to fight cancer. I will cast the first ballot in favor, however, medijuana must have stringent quality assurance and controls, a regulated and accountable distribution system, and status as a controlled substance. The controls on oxycontin are a good model.

I lost my brother to drug escalation.

When I look at it in the cold light of logic, drugs are like money: they are neither good nor bad, it is what people do with them that is good or bad.

The syndicate are good Republicans? Maybe so because of all of the front businesses they own. I believe if we really knew where the money to import tons of cocaine and morphine base came from we would see that such money has no party allegiance.

I voted for Kerry.

As for the arguement of pot vs booze, I have had a steak and a beer ane enjoyed both but I never understood a Porterhouse steak and a joint. I suppose I'm just not getting that point. One can gook with lots of gonja but for some reason whatever you eat that has gonja in it just gives you the munchies.

Hodor, my best to you and yours.

As for prohibition, what is it that keeps us from murder, theft, mayhem, rape (yeah, right), and whatever else people do to one another? There is something that prohibits such behaviour.

Now what was that about prohibitions/

Thanks again for letting me air myself out. If someone can prove that a j can cut thirst like a beer I'll drink that joint.

Paula

hodor

i couldnt agree more tgirlpaula about the dangers in working with ppl who are stoned or mindnumbed in anyways. you see i work in construction as a carpenter and many many times i rely on those i work with in regards to my safety... up on a roof in the snow... a ladder ... holding a fifty kilo board while another cuts it with a chain saw... not to mention the telecomand (remote operated) cranes we have to use on site. it was bad enuf when another guy in my company was a little too into his drinks and in effect caused a serious cut to another guys hand when attempting to lift the metal bending machine.

i am lucky to have a good crew to work with who save their drinks for after work and (if they smoke and i am pretty sure none does) saves it for the weekends.

appreciate the kind words tgirl... i am just glad that time in our lives is behind us now.

Space Monkey

Quote: If someone can prove that a j can cut thirst like a beer I'll drink that joint.

Moot point TGirl, Cannabis isn't used for the same reasons as beer, even recreationally.

I'm pro-pot, although of course it should be issued with the same warnings that all potentially harmful substances are. Like, cigs cause cancer, don't drink and drive, same with Mary Warner. Obviously you shouldn't try and work stoned, but the following day, it's no worse than a hangover for impairing your concentration, and it all boils down to user responsibility. Everything can (and is) abused, but it takes an abuser to abuse it.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but in all my life I've known cannabis smokers, and never, ever known one to move onto harder drugs. And if a person does, is it the fault of the weed or a flaw in their personality?
It's exactly the same as saying alcohol makes alcoholics.

A steak and a beer is one of life's greatest pleasures for me, but so is the Matrix Trilogy, a bag of weed and a monster-sized bag of Doritos.

And finally, addictive? Maybe in the same way that any pleasant taste is addictive; I'm addicted to pleasure in all forms. You don't become mentally dependant on it - I smoked it for years, then came to a point where I had to stop for a test, and just stopped. It caused me no stress, no withdrawal symptoms, no anxiety, no chemical cravings, nothing. You can stop when you want to, same with anything. You have to want to.

And after the test, did I light up again? You bet! Same way I would have gone straight back to the ice-cream if I'd been cleared of diabetes.

hodor

QUOTE: Obviously you shouldn't try and work stoned, but the following day, it's no worse than a hangover for impairing your concentration, and it all boils down to user responsibility. Everything can (and is) abused, but it takes an abuser to abuse it.

Are you saying that a working with a hangover is okay. In my line of work I would try to perish the thought of working with a hangover. I do know that it does happen; I also know that those people P I S S me off because I and my workmates take up their slack and, where is their concetration? It's with their headache.

No, I don't believe that anyone should work with a hangover or anything in relation to it. When you do something like drink or smoke or whatever you need to be responsible, and that means thinking about the next minute, the next hour, the next day, and those you may affect.

Space Monkey

No, at which point did I suggest working with a hangover is okay? I made the analogy because alcohol is legal and cannabis is not. I said it is down to user responsibility. If anything, you just echoed my sentiment.

Point is, can anyone give me a logical argument why cannabis should remain illegal and alcohol legal if judged by the same standards of damage-potential?